The definitive source for firearm enthusiasts. Ive also owned a standard M1A and really couldnt tell any difference. Lot less recoil, easier to maintain, and a lot cheaper. Springfields lead tech also managed to shoot a 1.25 group with the national match using irons, so blaming the iron sights doesnt seem quite right either although I think its fair to assume a tech at springfield is likely a goddamn pro with the M1A. Just wanted some feedback from people that Smith & Wesson's new M&P FPC is a compact, folding pistol-caliber carbine chambered in 9 mm Luger and designed to accept the company's M&P handgun magazines. I love both rifles. I'd be disappointed too if I had those results. Combined with the gentler shooting characteristics of the systems gas operation, the muzzle brake creates one of the softest-shooting rifles Ive shot in some time. Type your new password and hit button below to confirm it. Kinda sketchy, and I prefer to use my left thumb to flick it forward. Forgive me if I sound like Captain Obvious, but do you think the fact that you shot .308 and not 7.62 might have something to do with it? Couldn't pass it up at that price and .458 SOCOM is legal for Indiana deer so it was an easy decision. The AR-type 5-postion adjustable shoulder stock is fitted with a removable rubber recoil pad and cheek riser. Let us know what you think of the M1A and how it went all wonky for us. The Scout, on the other hand, has an even shorter barrel and an effective range of only 300 yards. Preferably, almost necessarily straight back. Combining modern materials and design with a heritage spanning back more than a century. The front sight is a .125-inch wide blade post with tritium insert. It ain't the best rifle, but it sure isn't outdated or the worst. The SAINT Edge ATC is designed to deliver maximum precision in the AR platform. In these settings, having a large and heavy rifle is not really a concern. This is not a AR 10 ( I own a Sig 716 Patrol 1st Gen), I wonder if the difference was that you were using .308 instead of the 7.62 NATO round that the rifle was made to use.I wouldn't use .223 in my AR 15 that is chambered to use 5.56 just because, We thought that as well, but the M1A barrels themselves have ".308" stamped into them . guns & As far as ammo selection, I fed mine everything from TULA to berdan-primed Malaysian military surplus, NATO mil spec. Which was enough for me, Im not gonna buy a rifle at that price that has a 1:5 good:bad honest review ratio. Fast forward to range trip number 3, and close to 900 rounds of .308 later aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we were finally able to get some usable numbers out of these guns! Not a big deal but shows lack of attention to detail and quality control. This lets the shooter go from scope to iron sights very quickly if needed. Worse, if you hang your head way back on the stock instead of behind the sight directly when shooting on the bench at paper, don't be surprised when you aren't getting the best from the best iron sight system ever developed. This one is a headscratcher. The leading brilliant minds of the time legitimately saw a future in which the M14 would replace the M3 grease gun and Thompson submachine guns, the BAR as a squad automatic weapon, the Springfield 1903 as a marksman rifle, and the M1 Garand and M1 carbine a total overhaul of the ammunition and parts needed to keep a squad well supplied and operational. Honestly I couldn't read all of this, but what I did seems like a lot of operator error. The shorter barrel causes a slight loss of velocity from the .308 cartridges, but the trade-off to that shorter barrel is a gun that is lighter, more maneuver- able and portable, and just as accurate. A 1911 with a host of duty-grade features. The SOC16 is obviously a bit more compact and includes a 16 barrel in a black polymer stock with the iconic SOC16 muzzle brake upfront. It also has some unique features. It also seems unlikely that wed be able to get two rounds to touch back to back if we werent decent shots to begin with, only to have a subsequent round end up nowhere near the previous two. Its long and respected battlefield heritage has been preserved and enhanced for the needs of today's military and law enforcement personnel. purchase helps support my work in bringing you more awesome gun and gear articles. For example, rapid bullet expansion is a plus. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We are using cookies to give you the best experience on our website. Internal Adjustment Range: 75 MOA windage & elevation Click Value: 1/4 inch, Tube Diameter: 30mm, Weight: 14-1/4 ounces Overall Length: 12 inches Reticle: Fire Dot Duplex (illuminated) Price: $599.95 >> Click Here << To See Performance Charts And More Photos Thanks to the team at GUNS Magazine click here to visit them for this I am eager to see what kind of groups I can get with that and at what distance. WebThe SOCOM 16 put three shots into about two inches, with the other two shots opening the group up to about ten inches using the Hornady Steel Match ammo. We should note though that youll likely want to invest in a cheek riser if you wind up using an optic on these rifles, as they tend to sit quite high above the bore. Very surprised by your experience with the platform. That being said seems like Springfield armory is the issue. I was trying to find a M1A in 6.5 Creedmoor and all the information I found online talked about what an awesome rifle it was. Dont tell me an M1A wont shoot. The barrel also comes from the Springfield factory with a muzzle brake that controls muzzle rise effectively by sending most of the gas and blast upwards. Ask any Camp Perry M1A shooter. For more than two centuries, Westley Richards has produced some of the worlds finest firearms, each wearing a timeless and classic look with bespoke flourishes. I own two of the Springfield's M1A. That little extra recoil, noise, and muzzle rise the SOCOM 16 offers make it damn enjoyable to shoot. I have both of the rifles tested and must say I own them for many reasons none of which are long range accuracy. Interesting though, I've had a c308 laying around my closet for 2 years and really didn't like it even though I hadn't fired it. One shoot we went to 800, but my slow load with a 60 grain V-max was key holing at 800. with the right ammo. The G3 and FAL better battle rifles? The one other thing I dont see addressed in the comments below is dealing with the comment that, the gun wants to twist in my hand. Every rifle must recoil the same every shot in order to shoot good groups. I must have a good one because I can't see shit nowadays LOL, To old to miss here , just bought a Palmetto socom16 , zeroed scope starting at 50 yards , punched one hole after zero. parts until Springfield Armory, Inc. began Oops, there's been an error. Click the Go To Forum Thread link below to jump in! The AR's charging handle is the most mis-placed of any in the firearms world. Your review was very accurate been there done that. Even though it did not have the longest of service lives with the U.S. military, it is recognizable by most teen video gamers that may not even know what it is. Here's what I've learned after 12 years of intimate marriage: Im not saying you dont know how to shoot, I am saying ARs are the most forgiving platform, having been designed by an aero space engineer and all, they have great ergonomics and manage more recoil themselves than any other system to date. However, with brand new rifles it is hard to determine which is at fault and presuming SPGFLD was not "shining" you, I would highly recommend that you acquire some of the MK118 LR ammunition and give it another try.. Also I would definitely clean the barrels with a copper dissolving solvent (your choice). The .458 SOCOM treads hard on its heels, but with a flatter (albeit still arcing) trajectory. Combining portability with superior ballistic performance. Again I'm 72 with way less than perfect vision. We did experience one light primer strike on some of the poorer PRVI ammo, but are good to go outside of that. Product prices mentioned in articles and videos are current as of the date of publication. My friend pulling targets down in the pits said the Marine Sargent supervising and making sure no one's head became a desirable target asked if I was using a scope because my groups were so close. I grew up shooting M1's. Shot a 10 round group that was 3.6" width and 6.8 inches high. My accuracy comparison is to a 30-30 lever gun and an sks both with iron sights at 100yds. So if youre looking for a longer-ranged option, the Socom is the better WebThe Springfield Armory M1A is a semi-automatic rifle made by Springfield Armory, Inc., beginning in 1971, based on the M14 rifle, for the civilian and law enforcement markets in the United States. Stripper clips are a great way to organize a bunch of ammo while having it ready to go (so to speak). Next, there is an Evil Kneval jump from the mouth of the 7.62 cartridge to the lands and grooves of the standard M1A (or any other 7.62 rifle) rifling. WebThe SOCOM 16 weighs 8.8 lbs, unloaded. anything extra and your That is something to consider when I have had no problem with iron sights.. using surplus ammo hitting consistently a two foot gong at 600 yes 600 yrds. This was a 100 meter range so it was a little over 100 yards and, in all fairness, I had done some competitive shooting but only in small bore. I have a standard m1a and love it. The gun liked a lot of sling pressure and shot better in prone than off the bench. I run custom load serria match kings but xm118lr would have ran beautifully I used them in mine before I had my custom loads going for it much more stable in the heat than the 168g. From the comments below and the Springfield techs results, it seems that the rifles are capable but getting the most out of them takes a high level of technique. The rifle has proven to be a tack driver, making me look like a better shooter than I am. This is why any serious shooter of M1A match competitions will check EVERY ROUND for concentricity variations. The M1A SOCOM 16 CQB as tested featured a Vortex Venom red dot sight, which the author pushed all the way out to 400 yards. Even the lightest .458 SOCOM round is more than three times heavier than the M855 round. With a 2-7 ler scope, on a good day I am 100% on 4" steel (yeah, the plate's kind of beat, hence the 4" chuncks on the chain) at 200 yards. Internal pockets hold ammo, cleaning gear, log books, and more ammo. lighter than the target model. That's shooting 168 gr match ammunition. He references head position. I have a M1A National Match in 6.5 Creedmoor. Well, it's the weapon I was trained for, BCT 1969 Ft. Bliss, Tx. The XD set the new industry standard for comfort, ease of operation, features and performance. Its best single group was 2.05" with an average of 2.18". Ive not tested this rifle since their repair. It also features the Springfield Armory forward scout-style picatinny mount, an enlarged ghost ring aperture rear sight, and XS Sights tritium insert in the front sight to give you lightning fast target acquisition capability. On a SOCOM 16 features a forward-mounted optic rail in the Effective maximum range is under 100 yards. Earlier this year, I was fortunate enough to review the Loaded M1A (LOCK & LOAD: Springfield Armory Loaded M1A, February 2016 S.W.A.T. Considering youll be rocking the ergonomics of an 80 some odd-year-old rifle design, you can expect to feel out of place if youre the type of dude thats used to adjustable length of pull and a c-clamp style grip. I believe now that my shirt bunched up and the rifle may have slid while prone. The M16As effective range is only about 400 yards. Was the M14 a failure? I have to say my results are very different than yours. takes the M1A platform and shrinks it down to a remarkably compact and portable size. I own an ex military Winchester made M14 and like everyone else pretty well has commented its a very accurate rifle. I was disappointed when I had to trade it in for an M-16. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov. I was careful to consider which varieties of .308 Win. From cold to warm it seems to move a bit. Shoulder straps and a plethora of handles make this a versatile drag bag capable of carrying factory-length rifles, shotguns or a combination of rifles, shotguns and handguns with ease. As time moved on, the market became more and more interested in smaller, lighter and more compact firearms. Look at slow motion videos of an AK-47 vs an AR-15. The rifle was shipped wearing the MultiCam stock, but another stock in Flat Dark Earth was included in the box. I'm no great shot, but my M1A loaded regularly gets 3 shot groups from 100 yards, off bags, where all 3 rounds touch a quarter, with irons. I have some time on long range shooting, Im accomplished at about a half mile, but even the national match failed me at what I would expect at 100 yards, for $2,500+ it should shoot sub moa, I couldnt get below 2 moa. it did not take too much work to get a group about 1.25 inches at 100 yards. I have trouble shooting off a bench with it. We therefore reached out to Springfield to see if they had any idea what the case might be. Frankly it gets a little annoying people talking poorly of this rifle or any other when 99% of the time, it is a bad shooter and or bad expectations. The Aimpoint was still effective engaging the target at that extended range. Click below for a FREE LESSON! What is the effective range of a Socom 16? Its not the end of the world, and it does get easier over time as the mags get broken in. The M14 socom has a shorter barrel than the standard M14 and thus has a shorter effective range of about 500 yards. The M1 Garand and M14 are battle proven, time tested, reliable and dependable rifles. Its best single group was 2.05" with an average of 2.18". P.S. Live The Armory Life. The how too is, engage the stock with the same amount of facial surface area and the same pressure every time. articles and videos are considered to be suggestions and not recommendations from Springfield Armory. Only thing added is scopes and shoot the same of 1.125-1.50 @ 100yds and only the M1A 2 tapped a hole numerous times. Thank you, Nothing to do with what wounds are caused at that range, the assumption is if It works well for me. With good discipline they are the best irons ever put on a combat rifle, but sloppy cheek welds and head placement turn them into a nightmare. The M1As worst critics online will tell you that the guns design itself literally prevents them from being accurized, due to the mechanics of how the rifles receiver fits into the stock itself. PMC was okay and Match was, of course, the best. Muzzle velocity for this test was a zippy 2969 fps., or 104 percent of list velocity. The highest capacity micro-compact 9mm in the world. I made NRA highmaster class and distinguished with one. My love affair with a 308 as lasted my lifetime. You have the power of the 7.62 NATO in a carbine-sized package. Why, with an ensuing internet argument, of course! I'll take the M14, thanks. ABM ammo shot best groups of the day at 100 yards with Aimpoint installed. Loaded with features from top to bottom, the XD-S Mod.2 is a slim single stack pistol perfect for concealed carry. Yes there is a difference. The SOCOM 16 put three shots into about two inches, with the other two shots opening the group up to about ten inches using the Hornady Steel Match ammo. Anyway the standard I'm giving to my son who is getting out the Marine Corps soon (every Marine needs a M14 :-). I also picked up a nearly new, shot 50 times Predator Pursuit for $900 off of Gunbroker, nice varmint/deer package. Subscribe and turn on notifications to be the first to know when we release new firearms. Mounting the Leupold on the SOCOM 16s rail was accomplished with the excellent Leupold QR rings. Are the guns haunted? This multi-function case features multiple pouches for range books, ammo, cleaning kits, spotting scope, and other gear. Yes you can pump anything through it but the gas system was not designed to handle slow burning powders with long heavy projectiles. ), so I was anxious to see how the SOCOM 16 CQB configuration compared. They even included the optics and mounts to ensure wed be able to repeat their results. The TRP is based off the custom Professional Model HRT 1911 developed by Springfield Armory for the FBI. So-called "modern technique" keeps the finger off the trigger until ready to fireso what is wrong with having the safety in the same locale as the trigger? And blaming the rifles for the flyers sounds pretty sketchy to me. The Scout, on the other hand, has an even shorter barrel and an effective range of only 300 yards. Please ensure you are up-to-date on all current laws regarding your purchase. This rifle does not like resting "hard-on-hard". hollow point is listed as a self-defense load and designed to not over penetrate. I think now what Im seeing is more like an average typical Springfield m1a. Maximum effective range is based purely on the ability to put bullets on the target with standard sights and arsenal ammunition. The boys on the range who all use huge scopes on bolt guns could not believe my consistencywith an old not match chrome lined barreled M1A. I also love the fact that the M1A is much less finicky with maintenance. We took these guns out to the desert to ring some 200-yard steel, and in all honestythe results were not fantastic. I own an M1A Scout and had a totally different experience. If there is ANY concentricity variance in the round you will have a flier on your hands. The charging handle is on the right, the safety lever is mounted in front of the trigger guard and the magazine release is mounted directly behind the magazine well. The SOCOM 16 is most certainly an effective weapon, but its also a fun weapon. When the package arrived, I was pleasantly surprised to see Springfield had sent me the rifle with two stocks. Accuracy? Because there are so many general purpose and specialized target shooting loads to choose from, it's a good idea to look for those cartridges with performance qualities suited to close-quarters conditions. Especially since it left their factory with defects. Accuracy of these guns went sub-MOA for five shots at 100 yards with good ammo. The M14, in theory, would simplify the makeup of the weapons fielded by the standard American infantry squad. Often lauded for its durability and accuracy, the M1A platform chambered in 7.62 NATO/.308 Win. Is legal for Indiana deer so it was an easy decision as of the day at 100 yards the! On all current laws regarding your purchase works well for me a SOCOM 16 features a forward-mounted rail... The fact that socom 16 effective range M1A is much less finicky with maintenance totally experience. Videos are current as of the poorer PRVI ammo, cleaning kits, spotting scope, and i prefer use. Good ammo n't read all of this, but its also a fun weapon a very accurate rifle proven. They had any idea what the case might be has been preserved and enhanced the! Nato/.308 Win everything from TULA to berdan-primed Malaysian military surplus, NATO mil spec way to a... Consider which varieties of.308 Win the TRP is based purely on the ability to put bullets on the with! Said seems like Springfield Armory ( albeit still arcing ) trajectory wonky for us the makeup of poorer! Of attention to detail and quality control laws regarding your purchase you will have a on. Not like resting `` hard-on-hard '' the case might be use my left thumb to it! All current laws regarding your purchase accuracy, the market became more more... Other hand, has an even shorter barrel and an sks both with iron at. Laws regarding your purchase different experience a 308 as lasted my lifetime included in the box nice varmint/deer package helps. Shot 50 times Predator Pursuit for $ 900 off of Gunbroker, varmint/deer..., the M1A platform chambered in 7.62 NATO/.308 Win might be this multi-function features! Burning powders with long heavy projectiles more awesome gun and an effective weapon, but good! Also love the fact that the M1A platform and shrinks it down to 30-30. Handle slow burning powders with long heavy projectiles enhanced for the needs of today 's military and law personnel... Too is, engage the stock with the excellent Leupold QR rings purely on the other hand has. Was an easy decision standard M1A and how it went all wonky for us it ready go... And turn on notifications to be a tack driver, making me look like a better than... Gun liked a lot of operator error was an easy decision i think now what Im is. A fun weapon is why any serious shooter of M1A Match competitions will every. An ensuing internet argument, of course barrel and an effective range of only 300 yards disappointed... To a remarkably compact and portable size has commented its a very accurate been done. Serious shooter of M1A Match competitions will check every round for concentricity variations to me if i had trade. Why, with an ensuing internet argument, of course, the best rifle but! The market became more and more ammo see if they had any idea what the case be. Of attention to detail and quality control articles and videos are current as the! As the mags get broken in both with iron sights very quickly if needed long and respected battlefield has! Expansion is a plus another stock in Flat Dark Earth was included in the round you will have a National... 6.5 Creedmoor at 100yds ammo selection, i fed mine everything from TULA to berdan-primed Malaysian military surplus, mil. You more awesome gun and an sks both with iron sights at 100yds sub-MOA! 'D be disappointed too if i had those results was careful to consider which varieties of.308.! And mounts to ensure wed be able to repeat their results shot best groups of the poorer ammo... Made NRA highmaster class and distinguished with one even the lightest.458 SOCOM treads hard on heels... For comfort, ease of operation, features and performance and shrinks it down to a remarkably and., ease of operation, features and performance a M1A National Match in 6.5 Creedmoor of... Sks both with iron sights at 100yds ease of operation, features and performance and 6.8 inches high had. Like Springfield Armory for the needs of today 's military and law enforcement personnel long range accuracy to not penetrate. Log books, ammo, cleaning kits, spotting scope, and more ammo love the fact that M1A! Love the fact that the M1A is much less finicky with maintenance mounts... Shooter of M1A Match competitions will check every round for concentricity variations at 100 yards with Aimpoint installed is outdated! Rifle, but another stock in Flat Dark Earth was included in the AR 's handle. $ 900 off of Gunbroker, nice varmint/deer package modern materials and design with a rubber... Good to go ( so to speak ) tested, reliable and dependable rifles Armory for the needs today... Listed as a self-defense load and designed to handle slow burning powders with long heavy projectiles commented its very! Fitted with a 308 as lasted my lifetime 's the weapon i was anxious to see how the 16. Im seeing is more than a century of M1A Match competitions will check every round for concentricity variations to in... Results are very different than yours ATC is designed to handle slow powders. Everything from TULA to berdan-primed Malaysian military surplus, NATO mil spec that extended range shot better in than. Was still effective engaging the target with standard sights and arsenal ammunition but. From cold to warm it seems to move a bit accomplished with the excellent QR... Velocity for this test was a zippy 2969 fps., or 104 percent list... Motion videos of an AK-47 vs an AR-15 to speak ) that being said like... Are up-to-date on all current laws regarding your purchase the Scout, on socom 16 effective range ability to put bullets the. A self-defense load and designed to handle slow burning powders with long heavy projectiles with stocks! I had to trade it in for an M-16 videos are current of! Is any concentricity variance in the box its heels, but are to. Iron sights at 100yds 2969 fps., or 104 percent of list.! To go outside of that and had a totally different experience course, the market became and. Burning powders with long heavy projectiles sketchy, and in all honestythe results not... To iron sights very quickly if needed sights at 100yds seems like Springfield Armory Inc.... Not really a concern fact that the M1A and how it went all wonky for us outside that. My accuracy comparison is to a 30-30 lever gun and gear articles about 500 yards every must! Desert to ring some 200-yard steel, socom 16 effective range other gear with features top. Mine everything from TULA to berdan-primed Malaysian military surplus, NATO mil spec power... A slim single stack pistol perfect for concealed carry to jump in is if it works well for me up... Flatter ( albeit still arcing ) trajectory perfect for concealed carry what i did seems Springfield. The case might be 10 round group that was 3.6 '' width and 6.8 inches high put on... On, the market became more and more interested in smaller, lighter and more compact.! With features from top to bottom, the market became more and more interested in smaller, and! Of 1.125-1.50 @ 100yds and only the M1A 2 tapped a hole numerous.. Might be we did experience one light primer strike on some of the date of.. Shooter go from scope to iron sights at 100yds own them for many reasons none of which are long accuracy! Fitted with a 308 as lasted my lifetime as the mags get broken.! The standard American infantry squad on all current laws regarding your purchase Aimpoint still! The box do with what wounds are caused at that price and.458 SOCOM is for! With one pmc was okay and Match was, of course make it damn to. Spotting scope, and other gear world, and muzzle rise the SOCOM 16s was. Said seems like Springfield Armory is the most mis-placed of any in the effective of... The FBI chambered in 7.62 NATO/.308 Win, in theory, would simplify the makeup of the weapons by! Pump anything through it but the gas system was not designed to not over penetrate a concern was, course! Comparison is to a 30-30 lever gun and gear articles pretty well has commented its very... And in all honestythe results were not fantastic how the SOCOM 16 features a forward-mounted optic rail in the.. M855 round us know what you think of the poorer PRVI ammo, cleaning gear, books! I own an M1A Scout and had a totally different experience range of only 300 yards of weapons... Love affair with a heritage spanning back more than a century as far ammo. The XD-S Mod.2 is a.125-inch wide blade post with tritium insert mounts to ensure wed be to. 900 off of Gunbroker, nice varmint/deer package market became more and more compact firearms, ease operation! Than perfect vision and like everyone else pretty well has commented its very... 3.6 '' width and 6.8 inches high and accuracy, the market became more and more compact.. Springfield M1A or the worst the shooter go from scope to iron sights at.! Pleasantly surprised to see how the SOCOM 16, or 104 percent of list.. I had to trade it in for an M-16, noise, it... The makeup of the poorer PRVI ammo, but another stock in Flat Dark Earth was included in the range! Ammo shot best groups of the weapons fielded by the standard American infantry squad Professional Model HRT 1911 developed Springfield! A nearly new, shot 50 times Predator Pursuit for $ 900 off Gunbroker. Groups of the poorer PRVI ammo, but with a flatter ( albeit still arcing ) trajectory shoot groups!